PFAS in Focus: Legal Standards, Health Risks, and Environmental Concerns

[00:00:00] You might not realize it, but we are exposed to dozens of hazards every day. Can any of these hazards negatively impact your health? Definitely this is the Exposure Scientist podcast.

[00:00:13] My name is Alex LeBeau and here we answer your questions and concerns on what you may be exposed to every day. Welcome to the Exposure Scientist podcast. Exposure Science covers a broad subject area, including tax ecology and industrial hygiene and risk assessment.

[00:00:32] From occupational, community or environmental exposure, exposure scientists apply scientific methodologies to understand exposure risks in applied controls when necessary. We at Exposure Assessment Consulting have this expertise.

[00:00:47] Reach out to us at info at Exposure Consulting.com for a free 15-minute consultation to discuss the specifics of your exposure scenario. From the contamination issues caused by it, and generally how people are going to address it?

[00:01:27] I was recently at the American Bar Association's Conference for Toxic Tortenibirminal Law where there was a lot of discussion on PFAS. From a legal perspective, a health perspective, PFAS, an environmental perspective.

[00:01:43] Addressing these in such a way with such a volume shows that the issue surrounding their presence in the environment and manufacturing products. And even in human samples is not going away. I think it's critical and important to acknowledge that.

[00:02:02] This is a problem that you are going to have to deal with in some form or fashion. So the examples I'll give here is last year, there was a proposed MCL maximum contaminant level for PFAS in water from the EPA and drinking water.

[00:02:23] And on April 10th of this year, those MCLs were finalized.

[00:02:31] That says that now anyone supplying water, that meets the definition of what a public water utility is or a water utility that is supplying water to individuals is going to have to monitor their water their potable water for PFAS.

[00:02:53] And if there is any exceedences above the MCL, then there are going to have to be mitigation steps. There's going to have to be something to control what those exceedences are. And I think it's important to understand that this now establishes legally enforceable levels.

[00:03:18] That EPA can now go in there and say you need to regulate this, you need to do this, you need to address what the exposures are.

[00:03:26] So let's say your public water utility and you are regulating or your supply water now you're going to have to monitor for these and if you have exceedences, you're going to have to either find what is causing those exceedences or control those exceedences.

[00:03:38] So we're just going to potentially be an exorbitant cost for individuals or for public water utility. But let's say that you are only a small water utility. What are the potentials that you're going to have to regulate against those?

[00:03:54] You know, in some scenarios from what we do from water quality is acknowledging and understanding that sometimes facilities themselves have to install what's called secondary treatments. Where they have to treat the water within their facilities because they are managing the water within their facilities.

[00:04:16] Meaning that their potential water form pathogens that they have identified their facilities and they are not receiving enough disinfectant from the local water utilities. Now they are having to install these secondary systems.

[00:04:28] In some regards, depending on the scenario, these second installation of secondary systems can be viewed as now they are being classified as a water provider for individuals that's within that facility.

[00:04:43] But it may be a office building, it may be a residential and multifamily home or a large scale, potentially a high rise building.

[00:04:54] So if you have those sign of systems installed and you meet certain EPA requirements of being a public water utility or a water utility providing water to certain individuals, even though it's small, you may now have to comply with the PFOS.

[00:05:08] What are you going to do now? Now you would solve the secondary treatment systems like water chloramine systems.

[00:05:14] And now you have to not only identify what the chloramine levels are and other levels depending on what's coming water utility may have to do chlorine disinfect the byproducts, a lead and copper. But now you have to worry about PFOS and what if you do have PFOS exceedences?

[00:05:37] What is that going to mean for your system? Are you going to have to now install some kind of filtration system or removal system? What's it going to be a huge cost? So this is something you have to understand going forward that PFOS is not going away.

[00:05:55] The solidification of these new rules, especially the MCL for PFOS is showing us that this isn't issue that is going to continue to grow and compound not.

[00:06:08] At this point from a perspective of let's all be concerned about the health, this is more so okay, this is what we've identified so far for PFOS.

[00:06:21] Let's continue to look at the potential health aspects because we're seeing PFOS more and more. I'll give you an example of an article I saw the other day, it was a discussion of PFOS in some drinking water products, not drinking water apologize in some energy drink products.

[00:06:42] There are some lawsuits that are being filed for sport drinks, energy sport drinks, contain PFOS. It was not acknowledged on their product that it contained PFOS.

[00:07:01] What was the PFOS introduced at some point? Now quickly we'll generally kind of go do a quick history of PFOS, I'll say quick history of PFOS or very heat tolerance substances. They also reduce surface tension, the act of surfactant something that so it makes sure that something else doesn't stick to a surface.

[00:07:22] These heat resistance and surface tension reduction qualities of it make it very attractive for a number of different products. It's been included in cosmetics before included in food packaging material.

[00:07:35] It's been included in materials that consumers use to cook food on. So it is lots of places and it has applicability beyond just say consumer products.

[00:07:49] So the scenario here that these individuals may be facing from these energy drinks containing PFOS is maybe they will use water from a local water utility.

[00:08:01] Maybe it wasn't maybe they used their own filtration, I don't know, I don't know anything about the case but it is entirely possible that water local water utility now that they are having to monitor for PFOS whereas before they did not just had PFOS in it and they used the portable water.

[00:08:18] They were they received to make the energy drink and that meant that.

[00:08:27] The PFOS was now in the energy drink not something that they potentially added. Again, I don't know the scenario but it's something that you have to think about and have to consider one of the main things I have said.

[00:08:41] I'll say in all kinds of products from a risk understanding and reduction perspective is you have to understand what is in your product.

[00:08:52] What are you providing to consumers and you may have a food ingredient that you are setting up specific tolerances for as debosing specifications for and saying something has to be with a certain percentage range or not to exceed value but.

[00:09:10] What if you are not monitoring for it or not testing for it or not understanding that is there because you don't think it's there. But here's the thing to consider and it's coming up more and more you can call a misalabling issue or what have you but.

[00:09:30] If you as a manufacturer don't understand what is in your product or don't know what is in your product.

[00:09:40] There's two I'll say two main avenues you either know what's in your product by doing a number of different tests to identify what's in there and tracing where the introduction of that particular substance in this case PFOS may be coming from.

[00:09:55] Or someone else is going to tell you what is in your product so do you want to be on the forefront of it and say listen we know it's in our product or managing the risk we've done the risk assessments on that we've identified there's a very little risk as far as.

[00:10:14] As far as the number of individuals that you know based on these theoretical calculations that may be impacted or. Do you want someone knocking on your door whether it's a federal trade commission the FDA.

[00:10:27] And attorney with a lawsuit this is did you know this was in your product. And you give a blank stare back because you hadn't considered that it is in your product now that's one thing to be very much concerned about is.

[00:10:48] Someone else telling you what is in your product and getting ahead of what is in your product I think is is very important. Understanding it knowing the different constituents if people are coming in and I you know it's it's.

[00:11:07] It's something to get I'll say a specification sheet from manufacturer that says oh this is what's in and then this product verify what's in.

[00:11:15] Make sure you are doing your own tests to ensure that what they are giving you is what they actually say they're giving you and there's not anything else in there.

[00:11:25] You know want something that I'll say is a secondary contaminant or something that maybe you does being formed during the manufacturing process that wasn't anticipated or what tested for. Have an evaluation done have a third party evaluation done for it.

[00:11:40] You know, a lot of times I'll say you know there are people who are specialized I can go in there myself can go in there and say okay what are the potential outcomes or things that we may be looking for if you're using internal people.

[00:11:54] One of have seen is a lot of internal people have their own jobs they have things that are from other I human health risk perspective or regulatory perspective or what have you this is also.

[00:12:07] Say added burden in some regards to what they're doing you know they haven't been kept up the speed on p-foss or they haven't been reviewing the information.

[00:12:15] For p-foss to understand where or what products it may be and at the ABA conference I was surprised here a number of different other products consumer products that are.

[00:12:28] Being targeted or identified again this energy drink was something that was just new that I had read about it in article there other products that are and within homes. That people are concerned about so.

[00:12:43] It's that identification of hey we didn't think it was in our product or we didn't know I've heard people say well we don't have the bandwidth to do an assessment or understand what potential other contaminants may be in our products and I'm not saying p-foss isn't contaminant.

[00:12:59] In this regard but it's more so we didn't know the p-foss is even used to manufacture this product so you know there's lots of things to go through there's lots of things to consider and there's certain questions to ask.

[00:13:13] Exposure science covers a broad subject area including tax ecology industrial hygiene and risk assessment from occupational community or environmental exposure exposure scientists apply scientific methodologies to understand exposure risks. And apply controls when necessary we at exposure assessment consulting have this expertise.

[00:13:34] Please reach out to us info at exposureconsulting.com for a free 15 minute consultation to discuss the specifics of your exposure scenario.

[00:13:46] You know you may be going to some of these providing in the ingredient for your product and saying well did you use p-foss in the manufacturer of this product they say well we don't think so you say okay.

[00:13:58] Well can we see their information we've sent it off for analysis or can we see your your records to see where your source materials from and if they say p-foss or you know if it's somewhere down a chain and it didn't get translated into what was used you have to understand why you have to understand the risk what is they actual risk from exposure to this.

[00:14:19] And what pathways are being supposed is it you know from the energy drink is it a oral pathway that's being concerned. Concern when you think about drinking water.

[00:14:29] You have to think about this manor is drinking water typically is what is ingested however you we also shower with drinking water.

[00:14:39] It's potable water it's not classified as I was like couldn't put drinking water is potable water that means we can ingested into our bodies but when you're showering it's aerosolizing you're inhaling. What may be in that water as well is that a potential pathway that should be considered.

[00:14:56] I'll say for your for water or other consumer products that may be releasing p-foss in some form of fashion so that's a lot to think about. There is help but is it is is a problem that's not going away it is here to stay.

[00:15:16] For at least the foreseeable future and figure out how either you as a manufacturer or an intermediary or facility that sells the product or even an end user.

[00:15:29] How the risk is going to impact you somewhere along that line and right now I get my focus on has been very much on consumer products but. I have also been approached by individuals worry about occupational exposures this as well.

[00:15:48] There have been products that are used in certain scenarios that can lead to occupational exposure for example there's not going to mention the company but there's a company that makes degreasors that are used in occupational settings where they've said okay well you know up until.

[00:16:10] The certain date we we now acknowledge that the p-foss is in there even though it may be a small amount and within a few years we're going to. Stop manufacturing and we're going to stop including it in that product but it's still something that if you're.

[00:16:24] Managing people who are using products you have to understand if p-foss is potential in there and what their exposures are this for example was an inhalation exposure.

[00:16:35] Somebody approached me about for for occupational exposure and exposure science covers a broad subject area including toxicology and industrial hygiene and risk assessments. From occupational community or environmental exposure exposure scientists apply scientific methodologies to understand exposure risks in applied controls when necessary.

[00:17:02] We at exposure assessment consulting have this expertise please reach out to us info at exposure consulting.com for a free 15 minute consultation to discuss the specifics of your exposure scenario.

[00:17:16] Very much the water aspect is getting a lot of focus obviously with the MCL that is now finalized there's a lot of testing this going on except from the water medium of water but there has been a little. We've got a lot of questions about the water.

[00:17:38] And I think that's a lot of questions about the water. I think that's a lot of questions about the water. for inhalation. And they said, you know, we don't right now, but we're potentially

[00:17:57] working on it. If that's something that more and more of our consumers and our customers are worried about, you know, we had something that we have started looking into. And I think that from an occupational standpoint, it's something that is going to potentially

[00:18:13] have to be understood as well. The year products contain PFAS at what level is the PFAS and what are the exposures? Are you able to test for PFAS, whether it's in inhalation, whether it's durable contact. You know, many times I've seen dermal is not a primary concern

[00:18:36] for the PFAS, but it depends on the medium that it's in as well. So I think understanding from an occupational standpoint, what is in your products because for our long time, as I was

[00:18:47] talking with some people about this, they were under the, they had the understanding that PFAS was not in their product. And then the manufacturer came out and said, oh well actually,

[00:19:00] there is a small amount in your product. And this was just in the recent last year or two that this revelation came out. So you have people that are potentially being exposed, occupational, and PFAS, how are you managing those occupational exposures? And how are you

[00:19:18] doing your, I'll say, from if you're in house occupational safety health individual or environmental health and safety professional or something of that regard, are you doing a due diligence to reach out to manufacturers who's products you're using and saying, okay, do you have PFAS

[00:19:36] in there? Have you done any testing to determine if PFAS is in there? That is big questions to ask. And that's sometimes scary questions to ask. But do you want to know what your potential

[00:19:50] exposures are or do you want to find out years later that oops, the products that we were using did have PFAS and we weren't controlling it. Are you going to be proactive or you're

[00:20:02] going to anticipate that these products potentially have them in there? And what are the risks? You know, there's thousands. I say thousands. You know, the TASCA has at least 500 PFAS listed on

[00:20:17] there and that's not it's not all of them. Which PFAS are you going to focus on? So I think from an acupational standpoint, you know, that is definitely a concern. From a, I'll say, in the environmental standpoint, it was something interesting information that was identified at the

[00:20:38] ABA conference. If you have, you know, there's lots of stuff that has gone on every thing years about PFAS and ground water or in the soil contamination that is in the ground that

[00:20:52] is being have to be dealt with whether it's from brownfield, superfund or what have you from some kind of contamination. There's been lots of settlement talks of water contamination from PFAS, that's in the ground, et cetera. But PFAS has a hazardous substance designation and the

[00:21:13] question was well because PFAS has hazardous substance designation from EPA, is that enable the reopening of previously closed sites, superfund sites, or what have you to go back and now say okay well,

[00:21:35] now these sites we didn't evaluate PFAS then. But now we're having to go back and oops, PFAS is there. We thought we had everything clean up. We don't. And now those sites are going to have to be reopened

[00:21:47] to remediate the PFAS that is identified. There's lots that is going on in the PFAS space from either a consumer protection kind of exposure standpoint from an occupational standpoint and even a site remediation or sites contamination standpoint that need to be addressed and are going to

[00:22:13] to continue to be addressed. And it is again, it is not an issue that's not going to go away. It's an issue that is going to take a lot of money to address. But it's also going to take

[00:22:29] appropriate research and how we identify risk, how we identify what exposures are, how we identify what human health potential impacts are. Now earlier this year CDC put out some guidance. I'll say guidance, some recommendations for individuals to have conversations with their physicians

[00:22:50] to determine whether or not they should have their blood tested for PFAS. What is going to be done with that data? How is that data going to be informative to individuals and what their

[00:23:07] risks are? That is a whole new arena that I think is going to need to be explored. Now we've done research for PFAS and serum levels using end hains data, but this is not an organized study design

[00:23:23] like end hainsist. This is an individual going to talk to their physicians saying, okay can I have my blood test for PFAS and CDC says? That's probably a good idea to tell physicians

[00:23:34] to do testing for PFAS. How is that data being interpreted? What are the individual risks from that individual? Are there only limited tests for the PFAS and blood is it going to be expanded?

[00:23:48] Is insurance going to pay for that? And ultimately what does that mean? Is it mean that they're going to approach their manufacturers, look at water utilities and say, where is my exposure coming

[00:24:01] from? Or are they going to go talk to attorneys and saying, look I have PFAS, my blood, where is that coming from? There's lots of things in this arena that are continuing to move and expand and again,

[00:24:14] getting ahead of this PFAS issue. I know a lot of people are going to be playing catch-up on this enough heard people that have said we really aren't of people that are saying we really are not

[00:24:28] addressing this internally, but you're going to need to have conversations about it internally and what you think you know about PFAS as far as how individuals are going to be exposed, you need to have a comprehensive assessment done because at some point someone will be knocking

[00:24:49] on your door and saying we found PFAS in your product. You're going to need to say, now we knew about that. We disclosed that we did a risk assessment on it. We identified the low risk

[00:25:01] based on the individual PFAS that was identified. You need to have that in your hand because of course, so when else comes to you and says we found PFAS done seeming new about it. We did

[00:25:13] our own assessment. It says it's dangerous. What are you going to do to make it right? So there's a lot going on in this space. If you have questions about PFAS, please feel free to reach out.

[00:25:25] I'd love to have a conversation about it again. It's an area that everyone is continuing to learn more and more and more about this time goes on. So I hope you enjoy this information. I hope

[00:25:35] it was valuable to you. Like I said, if you have any questions, please feel free to reach out and I hope you see you soon on the next podcast. Thank you so much. you